Ran out of the previous batch that I made (50g). Findings:

• Spreading in hair instead of on brush first works, not sure if it’s more even but it feels like I have more control how much I put where
• Putting more on front locks helps with frizz – that’s the part of my hair that gets frizzy e.g. from being wind blown
• Still figuring out exactly how much to put where, but in any case my day 3 hair is less frizzy and more curly than my day 1 hair used to be
• Putting a little too much in will give a bit of a gel cast feel, it does scrunch out a little bit. I don’t like it on day 1 but it gives great day 2 hair

New batch. Same as before, but with Xanthan gum added to hopefully thicken it more.

• 6g L-Arginine HCl
• 69g conditioner
• 3 drops (~0.2%) essential oil
• 0.15g (0.2%) Xanthan gum

It didn’t really thicken it up much. Maybe I didn’t use enough, or maybe Xanthan gum doesn’t work very well any more 10 years after its manufacturing date. To be honest the creme was a nice consistency already without it so I don’t think I’ll use it again.

I’ve ordered some L-Arginine HCl for testing.

As a first test, I added 4 grams of it to 46 grams of store-bought SAPDMA-based conditioner. So about 8% L-Arginine HCl or 6.6% L-Arginine. The change in viscosity was immediate, it got so thick I could barely stir it. I applied it to my hair as I normally do, about 15 grams spread using a wet detangling brush on wet hair, and leaving it in.

Compared to the same conditioner without the Arginine, I feel it works a little worse as a wet detangler because of how thick it is. However, it does seem to work otherwise as intended – my curls appear stronger and more defined, without the gloss that some other products give to my hair. If I add more of the stuff to my hair, it works like hair gel, but less glossy/oily.

I will continue to test it for a few more washes, also see if I can apply it just dissolved in water as a hair mask. I want to understand better what it does before I start formulating with it.

Thinking out loud. This post has very little structure and I change my mind about what I want to do multiple times.. be warned

Current formulation idea:

• 2% BTMS-50
• 0% cetearyl alcohol
• 1% “Jojoba” oil (mostly grape, then jojoba, some vit E and also sunflower)
• 1.5% HEC
• 0% panthenol
• 0.05% vit E
• 1% Geoguard
• <0.5% essential oils
• Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0

To solubilise HEC: add slowly to cold water with high shear mixing. To speed up, increase pH first until it hydrolyses, then pH can be adjusted down again.

Mango butter? Too heavy? Oils add friction, butters decrease.

BTMS-50 too heavy or too greasy in leave-in conditioner? Use Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine (SPDMA) or PEG-100 (emulsifier 165) instead? Panthenol just marketing, makes sticky, ok for leave in conditioner?? Could just use glycerin or proyplene gylcol as humectant, but also stick.

Quats (cationic), e.g. Cetrimonium chloride (detangler), honeyquat, polyquaternium (polyquat, e.g. polyquat-7, polyquat-10), – cationic conditioning ingredients. PQ-7 and 10 should be very low in leave-in product, 0.1%? Cetrimonium chloride is max 0.83% in leave-in products. But: in leave-on products, you don’t need specific cationic polymers. You can use emollients straight away.

Emulsifiers: cationic work best, nonionic ok too, but in leave-in conditioner cationic surfactants not needed. Frizz: can be both from cationic or anionic charge buildup.

Emollients, also for slip: carrier oils, silicones, esters such as C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, coco-caprylate (cyclomethicone replacement), PEG esters

Humectants: glycerin (but sticky at high concentrations), propanediol, sodium lactate,

Go for nonionic surfactants? Coco glucoside, Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside (only acidic non-ionic surfactant), fatty alcohols like Cetearyl Alcohol and Cetearyl Glucoside, sucrose cocoate (sanfteen, doesn’t work at pH<7), emulsifier 165

Non-ionic ingredient ideas

• C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate (light emollient, emulsifier, reduces greasiness? – sold out)
• Olivem 1000MB (surfactant, emulsifier, hair conditioner) – can be hard to work with. Should go in water phase to prevent soaping
• Plantsil/natrasil (heavy emollient, hair conditioner) – needs surfactant/emulsifier, greasy?
• Montanov 202 (emollient, surfactant, emulsifier)
• Cetearyl alcohol (emollient, emulsifier)
• Coco-caprylate (light emollient – sold out)
• Emulsifier 165 (can’t find)
• <10% PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate (surfactant, emulsifier, emollient), a bit sticky?

New formulation idea, after considering above and reading this thread:

• 3% PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate (surfactant, emulsifier, emollient)
• 2% propanediol 1,3 (humectant)
• 1% Light oil and/or mango butter, tocopherol (emollient)
• 1.5% HEC (film forming humectant, thickener)
• 1% Geoguard
• 0.1-0.5% essential oils
• Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0

Formulation – cationic & non-ionic

• 1% Behentrimonium chloride (cationic surfactant, emulsifier, conditioner)
• 1% Glyceryl oleate (non-ionic co-surfactant, emulsifier, refattening agent)
• 1% 1,3-propanediol (simple humectant)
• 2% Cetearyl alcohol (emollient, thickener)
• 2% Coco-Caprylate (emollient) link2
• 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer (film forming, provides hold, resists absorption of water in high humidity)
• 1% Cosguard/Geogard (preservative) link2
• Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0

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(post I never posted)

I’m looking to formulate a leave-in conditioner for my thin and damaged curly hair. After some searching I have found a product that works for my hair, but it’s a little heavier than I like (it’s not meant as a leave-in) and I would like a little more clumping/hold. It has the following ingredients:

• Aqua,
• Cetearyl Alcohol,
• Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine,
• Glyceryl Stearate SE,
• Hydrolyzed Keratin ,
• Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice,
• Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract,
• Behentrimonium Chloride,
• Dipropylene Glycol,
• Cetrimonium Chloride,
• Glycerin,
• (parfum, preservatives, pH adjusters)

I’ve used the above formulation as a starting point but want to change a lot of things. I have the following goals for my formulation:

• Wet detangling
• Non-greasy / non-wet-look
• Provides some clumping/hold
• Does not build up on repeated use without shampooing

I want to lower the amount of cationic surfactants, but I can’t source SAPDMA, so I’m using BTMS as a high HLB surfactant. I want to replace Glyceryl Stearate SE with Glyceryl Oleate for its refattening properties, and use Cetearyl alcohol to make up the rest of the low HLB. Then, I want replace all the humectants with a bit of propanediol, and add Coco-Caprylate as an extra emollient. Finally, I would like to use some PVP/VA Copolymer for a bit of clumping/hold. I’ve read that natural gums are harder to use and can cause flaking.

Would these ingredients work well together as a non-greasy leave-in conditioner for curly hair? I am quite new to formulating, so are there any things to look out for, like incompatibilities?

Thanks for any help!

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New formulation:

• 0.5% Behentrimonium chloride
• 1% Glyceryl oleate
• 2% Cetearyl alcohol
• 1% 1,3-propanediol
• 2% Coco-Caprylate
• 1% hydrolysed silk protein
• 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer
• 1% Geogard
• 0.2% fragrance oil
• Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0

	1	2	3	4	avg
Cat. surfactant	0.75	0.5	1	1.8	1.01
Cat. guar gum	0.2	0.3			0.13
Cat. polymer		0.5			0.13
Cat. total	0.95	1.3	1	1.8	1.26
Fatty alcohol	2.25	1	1	1	1.31
Simple humectant	4			2	1.50
Panthenol	0.5	1	1	2	1.13
Hydrolysed protein	3	1	2	2	2.00
Total film formers	7.7	2.8	3	6	4.88
Oil emollient		5		2	1.75
Other emollient	5				1.25
Total emollient	5	5		2	3.00

• Cationic surfactant: 0.75% – Behentrimonium chloride
• Fatty alcohol: 1.5% – Cetearyl alcohol
• Simple humectant: 1.5% – 1,3-propanediol
• Other film formers: 3.5% – 1.5% hydrolysed silk protein, 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer, 0.5% glyceryl oleate
• Emollients: 3% – Coco-caprylate
• Oil phase: 4.5%

Formulation:

• Heated water phase
  • 88.55% Distilled water
  • 1.5% 1,3-propanediol
• Heated oil phase
  • 0.75% Behentrimonium chloride
  • 0.5% Glyceryl oleate
  • 1.5% Cetearyl alcohol
  • 3.0% Coco-caprylate
• Cool down phase
  • 1.5% hydrolysed silk protein
  • 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer
  • 0.2% fragrance/essential oils
  • 1.0% Geogard

PVP/VA copolymer gives a wet look which I don’t like. Use less/no humectants (only film forming) to give a dryer look? Some may still be necessary to keep gel hydrated

Idea: LGN using glyceryl oleate (GMO) and Polysorbate 80. This study uses 90mg GMO to 40mg polysorbate 80, for 30% high-HLB by weight. 10-30% is recommended. However, this gives an overall HLB of only ~7.4 which may be too low to emulsify emollients. To get a HLB of 9.3, it would need to be ~45% high-HLB.
Calculating by molar percentage, I have to get the molar weights. I asked Perplexity, the answers were wrong but the sources are useful: glyceryl oleate 370.5234 g/mol polysorbate-80 428.60 g/mol. This means the molar ratio in the study is 1:2.6 (high:low), but to get an overall HLB of 9.3, it would need to be 1:1.2.
Ratios within 1:1 and 1:6 are mostly LGN, with 1:6 to 1:3 giving high viscosity. Ratios within 6:1 and 1:1 are mixed type emulsions (LGN & micellar system). Additionally, emollients such as ester oils like the coco-caprylate I’d like to use can reduce viscosity.

So: this anionic thickening LGN may be possible, but it may not emulsify coco-caprylate. For it to emulsify, it would no longer be thickening. I would need to add something like cetyl alcohol (242.4 g/mol).

To get to a HLB of 9.5 (ignoring the cetyl alcohol) and a 1:3 ratio high:low, starting from 0.5% glyceryl oleate, I would need the following amounts:

• 0.50% glyceryl oleate
• 0.50% polysorbate 80
• 0.50% cetyl alcohol

Which might not be thick enough because of the coco-caprylate interaction. With BTMS or BTMC instead of polysorbate 80, I would need more cetyl alcohol.

What if I drop the coco-caprylate, so the HLB can be lower?

• 1.5% Glyceryl oleate (conditioning, refattening)
• 0.5% BTMC (this brings HLB to ~6, and molar ratio 1:3.3)
• 5% L-arginine (emollient & simple humectant & fixative) – use 6% if L-arginine HCl
• may not emulsify fragrance/EO
• May not be thick enough
• 1% Geogard
• acid to pH 4.5-5.0
  • If using 5% L-arginine (free base)
    • ~3% lactic acid (L-arginine 174.20 g/mol, lactic acid 90.08 g/mol -> about 2:1 molar ratio to neutralise)
    • ~5% citric acid (closer to 1:1 molar ratio)
    • ~1% phosphoric acid (tripolar 98.00 g/mol -> about 5:1 molar ratio to neutralise)
  • If using 6%+ L-arginine HCl
    • bit of lactic acid

Things I want to figure out

• How does Arginine work as a fixative?
  • In-situ polymerisation?
  • Hydrolysed proteins are fixatives (but may need vigorous rinsing and can’t always be used continuously)
  • Proteins and amino acids can remodel hair’s disulfide bonds
• How can LGN work without fatty alcohols?
  • It doesn’t work with glyceryl oleate (GMO) alone, so above formulation needs a thickener or change to BTMC/cetyl alcohol
  • This study suggests it does work as LGN, but at 25+% surfactant, together with GMS, and even then it is not thickening
  • GMO together with Polysorbate-80 gives nanoparticles, not really thickening?
    • GMO:Tween80 ratios ranging 6:1 to 3:1 worked well, 3:1 gave larger particle size
    • Total surfactant 7-8%
  • Another study used Ewax (cetearyl alcohol & tween60) & GMO at different ratios; 3:7, 5:5 and 7:3, plus tween80. No info on concentrations or viscosity, but 3:7 Ewax:GMO gave the largest nanoparticle size
  • Lipid nanoparticles may be too stable. You can dry them and resuspend them, so perhaps they will not disperse in hair?
  • Conclusion: don’t try to make an LGN with GMO as the LGN promotor. Just use cetyl alcohol. Or use something else to thicken, HEC?
  • Do I even need GMO? It’s a refatting agent, but I don’t use harsh surfactants. Probably better to use conditioning polymers instead?

Dropping the glyceryl oleate, putting the coco-caprylate back

• 0.8% BTMC (emulsifier, conditioner)
• 1.5% Cetyl alcohol (emollient, thickener)
• 2.0% Coco-caprylate (light oil-like emollient)
• 6.0% L-arginine HCl (emollient, humectant, provides some hold)
• 1.0% Geogard
• 0.2% fragrance/essential oils
• acid to pH 4.5-5.0

Process behind the ratios

• I looked on specialchem.com and found that Coco-caprylate (or the very similar Coco-caprylate/Caprate) is typically used at 2% in leave-in hair care formulations.
• I read into emulsions. The 2% Coco-caprylate that I want to emulsify requires a HLB of 9.3, Cetyl alcohol requires a HLB of 15.5. If I want a total HLB to match with the HLB of BTMC which is 12, I calculated that I need 1.5% Cetyl alcohol.
• I want to thicken my conditioner using LGN, so I read into LGNs. If I understand it right, for high viscosity, the molar ratio of surfactant to LGN promotor should be between 1:3 and 1:6 for high viscosity. I calculated that I need about 0.8% BTMC to get to a 1:3 ratio.
• I cheched with some light leave-in conditioner formulations I could find if the BTMC and fatty alcohol values are in the right ballpark. Humblebeeandme has 4 light leave-in conditioner formulations, 2 of which use BTMC. The first uses 0.5% BTMC and 1% cetearyl alcohol, but they also use 0.3% cationic guar gum to help stabilise the emulsion and don’t recommend leaving it out. However that formulation has a larger oily fraction (5.5% vs 2.25%), so I might still get away with leaving it out. Also, the L-arginine might help stabilise the emulsion? Their second formulation uses 1% BTMC and 1% cetearyl alcohol, but it doesn’t have to emulsify any oil other than 0.5% fragrance oils. So I think I’m in the right ballpark with 0.8% BTMC and 1.5% Cetyl alcohol.
• I read that Arginine at 5-8% has nice fixative properties. I’m starting with 6% L-Arginine HCl which equals about 5% Arginine. I thought about getting the free base instead, but then I’d have to add the acid anyway to get the pH down to 4.5-5. This way I can avoid using strong acids.

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Forum post titled “Can Arginine function as a fixative in a leave-in conditioner?”

I want to make a leave-in conditioner for personal use. I want it to be a good wet detangler, provide some clumping/hold for wavy/curly hair without weighing it down too much, and I want it to not build up on repeated use without shampooing. Because of the latter, I’ve settled on trying to formulate a conditioner that mostly works by penetrating hair fibres, instead of creating a film.

I’ve set my eyes on Coco-Caprylate as a lightweight emollient, and I want to try Arginine for its emollient, humectant and supposed fixative properties. For my formulation I took 2% Coco-caprylate as a starting point, calculated that I need 1.5% Cetyl alcohol to get the HLB to 12 (same as BTMC), then calculated that I need about 0.8% BTMC to get to a 1:3 molar surfactant to fatty alcohol ratio for high viscosity LGN. I hope I understand the emulsifier & LGN theory right and this will create a nice consistency, perhaps with a little experimentation.

• 0.8% BTMC
• 1.5% Cetyl alcohol
• 2.0% Coco-caprylate
• 6.0% L-arginine HCl
• 1.0% Geogard
• 0.2% fragrance/essential oils
• pH to 4.5-5.0

My questions:

1. Am I using Arginine correctly in this formulation? I could only find the recommendation by @vitalys on this forum that it has “excellent fixative properties” and “5-8% will already bring nice fixation, especially in hair sprays”. I did find formulations using Arginine but they were all <0.5%.
2. How can an amino acid like Arginine have fixate properties? Does it polymerise, or maybe remodel disulfide bonds? Is it an interaction with other molecules taking advantage of Arginine’s affinity for hair protein and its cationic charge at pH<9?
3. Will this formulation work well for what I want, or does “fixative” for instance necessarily mean that it won’t be a good wet detangler?

Thanks for any help!

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Feedback: BTMC to 1% active, ratio to 1:4, maybe more emollients

Use silicones?

Italic: looking for

Available humectants (0-2%)

• Glycerin, veg (simple humectant)
• 1,3-propanediol (simple humectant) less sticky than glycerin
• Propylene glycol (simple humectant) petroleum
• Sodium PCA (humectant) expensive

Available humectants / thickening gels / film formers (?%)

• HEC (thickener, film forming humectant) dries stiff and crunchy – needs humectants, sticky?
• Carrageenan (thickener, film forming humectant, conditioner) difficult, might leave flakes?
• Xanthan (thickener, film forming humectant) link2 difficult, might leave flakes?
• Guar gum (thickener, film forming humectant) link2 difficult, might leave flakes?
• Panthenol?
• Sorbitol?
• PVP/VA copolymer (film forming, provides hold, resists absorption of water in high humidity) could work in leave-in conditioner at 1%? petroleum :( wet look :( buildup?
• PVA on its own? Less substantive, can’t find cosmetics quality
• Arginine (emollient, humectant, fixative at 5-8%) might help treat eczema, psoriasis, make sure it’s free base not HCl maybe HCl is better, no need for extra acid
• Sodium carbomer (film forming, thickener) buildup? needs to be neutralised
• Hydroxypropyl Chitosan (cationic, film forming, improves detangling) expensive
• Polyquaternium-11 (film forming, conditioning) might cause build up, tacky?
• Hydrolysed proteins, particularly low weight ones
  • Hydrolysed silk
  • Hydrolysed lupin seed – expensive
  • Hydrolysed rice

Available cationic emulsifiers / conditioning agents (0-4% active)

• BTMS-25 (surfactant, emulsifier, thickener, improves combing) link2 high HLB~15
• BTMS-50 (less thickening)
• Arachidyl/behenylbetainaatesylate and arachidyl/behenylalcohol
• Cetrimonium chloride (surfactant, conditioner, preservative) max 0.83% in leave-in
• Behentrimonium chloride (surfactant, conditioner) less greasy than BTMS, HLB~12 max 3% in leave-in
• Distearoylethyl Dimonium Chloride (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (surfactant, conditioner)
• Guar Hydroxypropyl Trimonium Chloride (conditioner, detangler) makes hair sticky
• Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine (SPDMA; cationic when neutralised, surfactant, conditioner, improves volume) specifically used in silicone free formulations. Removes build-up of ammonium, proteins, cations and other compounds on the hair

Available nonionic emulsifiers (0-4% active)

• Ceteareth 20 (surfactant, emulsifier, thickener)
• Decyl glucose (surfactant, emulsifier) link2
• Coco glucoside (surfactant, emulsifier, conditioner) link2 – more of a detergent
• Cetearyl glucoside (emulsifier) duur, high HLB, better emulsifier
• Sucrose cocoate (co-surfactant, conditioner) doesn’t work in acidic pH
• PEG-200 Hydrogenated Glyceryl Palmate, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate (surfactant, emulsifier, thickener, conditioner) petroleum
• Glyceryl oleate (co-surfactant, emulsifier, emollient, improves combing) link2 <1.5% HLB~4
• PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate (surfactant, emulsifier, emollient) a bit sticky? petroleum
• Olivem 1000MB (surfactant, emulsifier, conditioner) – link2 can be hard to work with
• Polyglyceryl-3 Polyricinoleate (emulsifier, emollient, non-greasy) w/o, difficult
• Polysorbate 80 / Tween 80 (surfactant, emulsifier) – HLB~15

Available amphoteric emulsifiers

• Cocamidopropyl betaine – cationic below pH~5.5

Available fatty alcohols and other LGN promotors (1-7%)

These will weigh down hair and decrease slip

• Cetyl alcohol (emollient, non-gelling thickener) link2 RHLB~15.5
• Cetearyl alcohol (emollient, non-gelling thickener) more draggy than cetyl? RHLB~15.5
• Behenyl alcohol – thickest, but highest drag of these three?
• Glyceryl stearate SE (anionic co-emulsifier, emollient) – HLB~6

Available emollients (1-2%)

• Dicaprylyl carbonate (non-greasy, non-oily)
• Isododecane not CG
• Coco-Caprylate (does not build up in hair, non-greasy, non-oily) link2, RHLB~9.3
• Isoamyl Laurate, Isoamyl Cocoate (improves wet combing, degreasing effect for oils, long shelf life), RHLB~11
• C12-15 alkyl benzoate () link2 the oiliest option, and least sustainable, RHLB~12
• Hydrogenated Ethylhexyl Olivate (and) Hydrogenated Olive Oil Unsaponifiables
• Squalane (emollient, non-greasy light oil) expensive
• Stearic Acid (emollient, thickener) too waxy
• Isoamyl laurate
• Lauryl laurate

Preservatives (up to 1%)

• Cosguard/Geogard (<1%) link2
• Rokonsal (<1%)
• Versatil TBG (1%) needs solubiliser & something against mould
• Phenoxyethanol (1%) petroleum
• Vit E tocopherol

pH adjusters

• Lactic acid (humectant) should be used up to 5% or up to 2.5% pH>5 (EU)
• Citric acid link2 up to 5%?
• Malic acid up to 2.1%, exfoliates hair at low pH?
• Tartaric acid
• Glycolic acid exfoliates hair at low pH
• Ascorbic acid (antioxidant) link2 up to 1%?
• Phosphoric acid – can be skin irritating at high concentration
• Just use HCl