Conditioner, continued

thomas

Thinking out loud. This post has very little structure and I change my mind about what I want to do multiple times.. be warned

Current formulation idea:

  • 2% BTMS-50
  • 0% cetearyl alcohol
  • 1% “Jojoba” oil (mostly grape, then jojoba, some vit E and also sunflower)
  • 1.5% HEC
  • 0% panthenol
  • 0.05% vit E
  • 1% Geoguard
  • <0.5% essential oils
  • Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0

To solubilise HEC: add slowly to cold water with high shear mixing. To speed up, increase pH first until it hydrolyses, then pH can be adjusted down again.

Mango butter? Too heavy? Oils add friction, butters decrease.

BTMS-50 too heavy or too greasy in leave-in conditioner? Use Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine (SPDMA) or PEG-100 (emulsifier 165) instead? Panthenol just marketing, makes sticky, ok for leave in conditioner?? Could just use glycerin or proyplene gylcol as humectant, but also stick.

Quats (cationic), e.g. Cetrimonium chloride (detangler), honeyquat, polyquaternium (polyquat, e.g. polyquat-7, polyquat-10), – cationic conditioning ingredients. PQ-7 and 10 should be very low in leave-in product, 0.1%? Cetrimonium chloride is max 0.83% in leave-in products. But: in leave-on products, you don’t need specific cationic polymers. You can use emollients straight away.

Emulsifiers: cationic work best, nonionic ok too, but in leave-in conditioner cationic surfactants not needed. Frizz: can be both from cationic or anionic charge buildup.

Emollients, also for slip: carrier oils, silicones, esters such as C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, coco-caprylate (cyclomethicone replacement), PEG esters

Humectants: glycerin (but sticky at high concentrations), propanediol, sodium lactate,

Go for nonionic surfactants? Coco glucoside, Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside (only acidic non-ionic surfactant), fatty alcohols like Cetearyl Alcohol and Cetearyl Glucoside, sucrose cocoate (sanfteen, doesn’t work at pH<7), emulsifier 165

Non-ionic ingredient ideas

  • C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate (light emollient, emulsifier, reduces greasiness? – sold out)
  • Olivem 1000MB (surfactant, emulsifier, hair conditioner) – can be hard to work with. Should go in water phase to prevent soaping
  • Plantsil/natrasil (heavy emollient, hair conditioner) – needs surfactant/emulsifier, greasy?
  • Montanov 202 (emollient, surfactant, emulsifier)
  • Cetearyl alcohol (emollient, emulsifier)
  • Coco-caprylate (light emollient – sold out)
  • Emulsifier 165 (can’t find)
  • <10% PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate (surfactant, emulsifier, emollient), a bit sticky?

New formulation idea, after considering above and reading this thread:

  • 3% PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate (surfactant, emulsifier, emollient)
  • 2% propanediol 1,3 (humectant)
  • 1% Light oil and/or mango butter, tocopherol (emollient)
  • 1.5% HEC (film forming humectant, thickener)
  • 1% Geoguard
  • 0.1-0.5% essential oils
  • Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0

Formulation – cationic & non-ionic

(post I never posted)

I’m looking to formulate a leave-in conditioner for my thin and damaged curly hair. After some searching I have found a product that works for my hair, but it’s a little heavier than I like (it’s not meant as a leave-in) and I would like a little more clumping/hold. It has the following ingredients:

  • Aqua,
  • Cetearyl Alcohol,
  • Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine,
  • Glyceryl Stearate SE,
  • Hydrolyzed Keratin ,
  • Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice,
  • Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract,
  • Behentrimonium Chloride,
  • Dipropylene Glycol,
  • Cetrimonium Chloride,
  • Glycerin,
  • (parfum, preservatives, pH adjusters)

I’ve used the above formulation as a starting point but want to change a lot of things. I have the following goals for my formulation:

  • Wet detangling
  • Non-greasy / non-wet-look
  • Provides some clumping/hold
  • Does not build up on repeated use without shampooing

I want to lower the amount of cationic surfactants, but I can’t source SAPDMA, so I’m using BTMS as a high HLB surfactant. I want to replace Glyceryl Stearate SE with Glyceryl Oleate for its refattening properties, and use Cetearyl alcohol to make up the rest of the low HLB. Then, I want replace all the humectants with a bit of propanediol, and add Coco-Caprylate as an extra emollient. Finally, I would like to use some PVP/VA Copolymer for a bit of clumping/hold. I’ve read that natural gums are harder to use and can cause flaking.

Would these ingredients work well together as a non-greasy leave-in conditioner for curly hair? I am quite new to formulating, so are there any things to look out for, like incompatibilities?

Thanks for any help!

New formulation:

  • 0.5% Behentrimonium chloride
  • 1% Glyceryl oleate
  • 2% Cetearyl alcohol
  • 1% 1,3-propanediol
  • 2% Coco-Caprylate
  • 1% hydrolysed silk protein
  • 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer
  • 1% Geogard
  • 0.2% fragrance oil
  • Lactic acid to pH 4.5-5.0
1234avg
Cat. surfactant0.750.511.81.01
Cat. guar gum0.20.30.13
Cat. polymer0.50.13
Cat. total0.951.311.81.26
Fatty alcohol2.251111.31
Simple humectant421.50
Panthenol0.51121.13
Hydrolysed protein31222.00
Total film formers7.72.8364.88
Oil emollient521.75
Other emollient51.25
Total emollient5523.00
  • Cationic surfactant: 0.75% – Behentrimonium chloride
  • Fatty alcohol: 1.5% – Cetearyl alcohol
  • Simple humectant: 1.5% – 1,3-propanediol
  • Other film formers: 3.5% – 1.5% hydrolysed silk protein, 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer, 0.5% glyceryl oleate
  • Emollients: 3% – Coco-caprylate
  • Oil phase: 4.5%

Formulation:

  • Heated water phase
    • 88.55% Distilled water
    • 1.5% 1,3-propanediol
  • Heated oil phase
    • 0.75% Behentrimonium chloride
    • 0.5% Glyceryl oleate
    • 1.5% Cetearyl alcohol
    • 3.0% Coco-caprylate
  • Cool down phase
    • 1.5% hydrolysed silk protein
    • 1.5% PVP/VA copolymer
    • 0.2% fragrance/essential oils
    • 1.0% Geogard

PVP/VA copolymer gives a wet look which I don’t like. Use less/no humectants (only film forming) to give a dryer look? Some may still be necessary to keep gel hydrated

Idea: LGN using glyceryl oleate (GMO) and Polysorbate 80. This study uses 90mg GMO to 40mg polysorbate 80, for 30% high-HLB by weight. 10-30% is recommended. However, this gives an overall HLB of only ~7.4 which may be too low to emulsify emollients. To get a HLB of 9.3, it would need to be ~45% high-HLB.
Calculating by molar percentage, I have to get the molar weights. I asked Perplexity, the answers were wrong but the sources are useful: glyceryl oleate 370.5234 g/mol polysorbate-80 428.60 g/mol. This means the molar ratio in the study is 1:2.6 (high:low), but to get an overall HLB of 9.3, it would need to be 1:1.2.
Ratios within 1:1 and 1:6 are mostly LGN, with 1:6 to 1:3 giving high viscosity. Ratios within 6:1 and 1:1 are mixed type emulsions (LGN & micellar system). Additionally, emollients such as ester oils like the coco-caprylate I’d like to use can reduce viscosity.

So: this anionic thickening LGN may be possible, but it may not emulsify coco-caprylate. For it to emulsify, it would no longer be thickening. I would need to add something like cetyl alcohol (242.4 g/mol).

To get to a HLB of 9.5 (ignoring the cetyl alcohol) and a 1:3 ratio high:low, starting from 0.5% glyceryl oleate, I would need the following amounts:

  • 0.50% glyceryl oleate
  • 0.50% polysorbate 80
  • 0.50% cetyl alcohol

Which might not be thick enough because of the coco-caprylate interaction. With BTMS or BTMC instead of polysorbate 80, I would need more cetyl alcohol.

What if I drop the coco-caprylate, so the HLB can be lower?

  • 1.5% Glyceryl oleate (conditioning, refattening)
  • 0.5% BTMC (this brings HLB to ~6, and molar ratio 1:3.3)
  • 5% L-arginine (emollient & simple humectant & fixative) – use 6% if L-arginine HCl
  • may not emulsify fragrance/EO
  • May not be thick enough
  • 1% Geogard
  • acid to pH 4.5-5.0
    • If using 5% L-arginine (free base)
      • ~3% lactic acid (L-arginine 174.20 g/mol, lactic acid 90.08 g/mol -> about 2:1 molar ratio to neutralise)
      • ~5% citric acid (closer to 1:1 molar ratio)
      • ~1% phosphoric acid (tripolar 98.00 g/mol -> about 5:1 molar ratio to neutralise)
    • If using 6%+ L-arginine HCl
      • bit of lactic acid

Things I want to figure out

  • How does Arginine work as a fixative?
  • How can LGN work without fatty alcohols?
    • It doesn’t work with glyceryl oleate (GMO) alone, so above formulation needs a thickener or change to BTMC/cetyl alcohol
    • This study suggests it does work as LGN, but at 25+% surfactant, together with GMS, and even then it is not thickening
    • GMO together with Polysorbate-80 gives nanoparticles, not really thickening?
      • GMO:Tween80 ratios ranging 6:1 to 3:1 worked well, 3:1 gave larger particle size
      • Total surfactant 7-8%
    • Another study used Ewax (cetearyl alcohol & tween60) & GMO at different ratios; 3:7, 5:5 and 7:3, plus tween80. No info on concentrations or viscosity, but 3:7 Ewax:GMO gave the largest nanoparticle size
    • Lipid nanoparticles may be too stable. You can dry them and resuspend them, so perhaps they will not disperse in hair?
    • Conclusion: don’t try to make an LGN with GMO as the LGN promotor. Just use cetyl alcohol. Or use something else to thicken, HEC?
    • Do I even need GMO? It’s a refatting agent, but I don’t use harsh surfactants. Probably better to use conditioning polymers instead?

Dropping the glyceryl oleate, putting the coco-caprylate back

  • 0.8% BTMC (emulsifier, conditioner)
  • 1.5% Cetyl alcohol (emollient, thickener)
  • 2.0% Coco-caprylate (light oil-like emollient)
  • 6.0% L-arginine HCl (emollient, humectant, provides some hold)
  • 1.0% Geogard
  • 0.2% fragrance/essential oils
  • acid to pH 4.5-5.0

Process behind the ratios

  • I looked on specialchem.com and found that Coco-caprylate (or the very similar Coco-caprylate/Caprate) is typically used at 2% in leave-in hair care formulations.
  • I read into emulsions. The 2% Coco-caprylate that I want to emulsify requires a HLB of 9.3, Cetyl alcohol requires a HLB of 15.5. If I want a total HLB to match with the HLB of BTMC which is 12, I calculated that I need 1.5% Cetyl alcohol.
  • I want to thicken my conditioner using LGN, so I read into LGNs. If I understand it right, for high viscosity, the molar ratio of surfactant to LGN promotor should be between 1:3 and 1:6 for high viscosity. I calculated that I need about 0.8% BTMC to get to a 1:3 ratio.
  • I cheched with some light leave-in conditioner formulations I could find if the BTMC and fatty alcohol values are in the right ballpark. Humblebeeandme has 4 light leave-in conditioner formulations, 2 of which use BTMC. The first uses 0.5% BTMC and 1% cetearyl alcohol, but they also use 0.3% cationic guar gum to help stabilise the emulsion and don’t recommend leaving it out. However that formulation has a larger oily fraction (5.5% vs 2.25%), so I might still get away with leaving it out. Also, the L-arginine might help stabilise the emulsion? Their second formulation uses 1% BTMC and 1% cetearyl alcohol, but it doesn’t have to emulsify any oil other than 0.5% fragrance oils. So I think I’m in the right ballpark with 0.8% BTMC and 1.5% Cetyl alcohol.
  • I read that Arginine at 5-8% has nice fixative properties. I’m starting with 6% L-Arginine HCl which equals about 5% Arginine. I thought about getting the free base instead, but then I’d have to add the acid anyway to get the pH down to 4.5-5. This way I can avoid using strong acids.

Forum post titled “Can Arginine function as a fixative in a leave-in conditioner?”

I want to make a leave-in conditioner for personal use. I want it to be a good wet detangler, provide some clumping/hold for wavy/curly hair without weighing it down too much, and I want it to not build up on repeated use without shampooing. Because of the latter, I’ve settled on trying to formulate a conditioner that mostly works by penetrating hair fibres, instead of creating a film.

I’ve set my eyes on Coco-Caprylate as a lightweight emollient, and I want to try Arginine for its emollient, humectant and supposed fixative properties. For my formulation I took 2% Coco-caprylate as a starting point, calculated that I need 1.5% Cetyl alcohol to get the HLB to 12 (same as BTMC), then calculated that I need about 0.8% BTMC to get to a 1:3 molar surfactant to fatty alcohol ratio for high viscosity LGN. I hope I understand the emulsifier & LGN theory right and this will create a nice consistency, perhaps with a little experimentation.

  • 0.8% BTMC
  • 1.5% Cetyl alcohol
  • 2.0% Coco-caprylate
  • 6.0% L-arginine HCl
  • 1.0% Geogard
  • 0.2% fragrance/essential oils
  • pH to 4.5-5.0

My questions:

  1. Am I using Arginine correctly in this formulation? I could only find the recommendation by @vitalys on this forum that it has “excellent fixative properties” and “5-8% will already bring nice fixation, especially in hair sprays”. I did find formulations using Arginine but they were all <0.5%.
  2. How can an amino acid like Arginine have fixate properties? Does it polymerise, or maybe remodel disulfide bonds? Is it an interaction with other molecules taking advantage of Arginine’s affinity for hair protein and its cationic charge at pH<9?
  3. Will this formulation work well for what I want, or does “fixative” for instance necessarily mean that it won’t be a good wet detangler?

Thanks for any help!

Feedback: BTMC to 1% active, ratio to 1:4, maybe more emollients

Use silicones?

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